Declined Remove 1.5x Guard Damage Multiplier

[festive god]

Even if you removed the 1,5x the blues would still be able to chase and kill the rebellers with relative ease.

That is false my man, u have yet to face a person whose good at bhoping on red while a blue. Bhoping can be so fast and effective some reds are so good they can either dodge it, or better yet, some reds can use the damage to go even faster. Back in my day there was some who were so good they just go sniper, with the camper secondary, and just get the hell out, and blew everyone’s head, clean off. Not to toot my own horn but I was slightly able to do it. One believe who comes to mind is null. I believe it was null, it’s been so long. But he was a master in his own ways.

 

[Firebird]

If people on

That is false my man, u have yet to face a person whose good at bhoping on red while a blue. Bhoping can be so fast and effective some reds are so good they can either dodge it, or better yet, some reds can use the damage to go even faster. Back in my day there was some who were so good they just go sniper, with the camper secondary, and just get the hell out, and blew everyone’s head, clean off. Not to toot my own horn but I was slightly able to do it. One believe who comes to mind is null. I believe it was null, it’s been so long. But he was a master in his own ways.

What i am trying to explain is that you do not have to remove the bhop if you remove the 1,5x. If the situation that you explained with the sniper is still doable, then if he outreaches the blues, How can the blues counter that with or without 1,5x?

It is very true that this whole thing is very situational, but fact of the matter is the server will not die if you remove the 1,5x. Maybe do more random micchecks on blues to see if they actually have mics? I have had over 1200 hours of JB experience over my period of playing this game and with the damage output being the same on both sides it really initiated not only pressure from both sides but it was fun. Fair fun.

If bhopping is the only thing that you are concerned with then i again have to ask why. Both sides can use bhop, but the blues can use tools to make their bhopping faster in the early game to catch rebellers. I dont know how many times i have tried to rebel then suddenly a blue soldier has went across the map bunnyhopping within seconds. And with the 1,5x there was no chance of survival.

 

[edi]

I just don't see it like that, in practice. I believe that you are not taking into account that rebellers should have a competence requirement, and not just guards. It is way too easy to just run at warden and crit them, or just bhop away.

Firebird, let me put it in my perspective; if it's too hard to rebel during a round... then that makes getting LR much more rewarding, and makes the LR more fun, and makes playing the mini-games more exciting! But If it's too hard to be on guards during a round... the round just starts over, no one gets LR, and anyone actually listening (the point of the game mode!!) get nothing for listening. People groan about Freedays for All because everyday on Flux is a freeday for all.

Even the wiki, as you have quoted, says that rebelling can require extreme effort and even team organization! This is how it should be. But even now most rounds on Flux JB end with warden dying.

The wiki that I quoted did not contain any information about damage stats being meddled with. And yes indeed it is hard, have you ever played as a solo rebeller against fully stacked blue team on a normal server? It is very hard and you have to be tricky. Luring blues your way tricking them into 1v1's.

Thanks to 1.5x it is not only hard it is near impossible to win in these situations. Even if you lure them into a 1v1 they will have something you will never have, additional damage.

As for warden dying to a crit in melee range, skill issue. They had the tools to deal damage from range, keep yourself at mid range and this should never happen.

 

[kringu]

If bhopping is the only thing that you are concerned with then i again have to ask why. Both sides can use bhop, but the blues can use tools to make their bhopping faster in the early game to catch rebellers. I dont know how many times i have tried to rebel then suddenly a blue soldier has went across the map bunnyhopping within seconds. And with the 1,5x there was no chance of survival.

But notice that Soldier is the only one that can do this, and takes 1.5x extra rocket jump damage plus possibly fall damage. He is then 1 or 2 melee hits from death. If they are using Gunboats, they are completely useless for shooting rebellers in a crowd and they're docking their potential by not using a shotgun for hitscan. But like you said, BLUs should strategize by picking the right classes, so how is this not exactly that?

A soldier takes a large risk by rocket jumping away from the rest of the REDs and bhopping after a single rebeller, he is essentially out of the game for the time he chases one person because of DISTANCE. He cannot do anything about the REDs back where he was anymore. One RED for one BLU is not a worth trade. The damage bonus allows BLUs to kill quicker, simple as that. If REDs were able to not bhop this wouldn't be an issue, but we cannot remove bhop as everyone likes it.

 

[kringu]

The wiki that I quoted did not contain any information about damage stats being meddled with. And yes indeed it is hard, have you ever played as a solo rebeller against fully stacked blue team on a normal server? It is very hard and you have to be tricky. Luring blues your way tricking them into 1v1's.

Thanks to 1.5x it is not only hard it is near impossible to win in these situations. Even if you lure them into a 1v1 they will have something you will never have, additional damage.

As for warden dying to a crit in melee range, skill issue. They had the tools to deal damage from range, keep yourself at mid range and this should never happen.

I have solo rebelled countless times on vanilla JB servers, and yes, it is hard, but that made going for LR more fun and I wanted LR more to ask for a freeday. This is the jailbreak experience. Why should Flux be rebeller central?

If I am a solo rebeller against a fully stacked guard team... I just won't rebel. There's nothing wrong with not being able to rebel every round. I will go for LR, which is my point, the game is more fun when LR is highly sought after. The next round I would ask for a freeday for a better chance to rebel.

 

[edi]

But notice that Soldier is the only one that can do this, and takes 1.5x extra rocket jump damage plus possibly fall damage. He is then 1 or 2 melee hits from death. If they are using Gunboats, they are completely useless for shooting rebellers in a crowd and they're docking their potential by not using a shotgun for hitscan. But like you said, BLUs should strategize by picking the right classes, so how is this not exactly that?

A soldier takes a large risk by rocket jumping away from the rest of the REDs and bhopping after a single rebeller, he is essentially out of the game for the time he chases one person because of DISTANCE. He cannot do anything about the REDs back where he was anymore. One RED for one BLU is not a worth trade. The damage bonus allows BLUs to kill quicker, simple as that. If REDs were able to not bhop this wouldn't be an issue, but we cannot remove bhop as everyone likes it.

Blocking entrance prevents REDs from going that far. REDs going that far is part of the game. Also you forgot about the Rocket Jumper

1.5×0=0 self damage

 

[Firebird]

Blocking entrance prevents REDs from going that far. REDs going that far is part of the game. Also you forgot about the Rocket Jumper

1.5×0=0 self damage

Exacly, the stock shotgun can one shot rebellers or pick them off from a distance with the damage buff.

 

[kringu]

Blocking entrance prevents REDs from going that far. REDs going that far is part of the game. Also you forgot about the Rocket Jumper

1.5×0=0 self damage

You know exactly why the rocket jumper is not as good as the rocket launcher. Now they have nothing to deal with a crowd, scout doesn't have that issue using the Scattergun because he has speed, but soldier is slow and cannot rocket jump away in an enclosed area. And also, again, BLUs blocking entrances/exits sounds exactly like organized gameplay which should be rewarded, it's not as easy as you think to coordinate a blocking of every single escape route. For example, ba_hopjb_v11 has 4 immediate exits at just cell block: one in BLU Battle Boats, Pool, towards BK, and through the vent in Knife Pit.

 

[edi]

You know exactly why the rocket jumper is not as good as the rocket launcher. Now they have nothing to deal with a crowd, scout doesn't have that issue using the Scattergun because he has speed, but soldier is slow and cannot rocket jump away in an enclosed area. And also, again, BLUs blocking entrances/exits sounds exactly like organized gameplay which should be rewarded, it's not as easy as you think to coordinate a blocking of every single escape route. ba_hopjb_v11 has 4 exits at cell block, one in BLU Battle Boats, Pool, towards BK, and through the vent in Knife Pit.

Not blocking every escape route, simply standing behind REDs when they're rushing warden markers is enough for example. You are making it seem way harder than it has to be.

Also I know exactly how strong the rocket jumper is, it is the best tool fof guards that want to be able to chase REDs and the best tool for recovering from a fight. Being able to quickly return to Armoury or Medic for HP and resupply.

 

[K̶̐͋̔̽a̴̢̗̖̬̿i̵̻͔̝̍ 壊]

It's a negative feedback loop until BLU is empty and the server dies

Abso-fucking-lutely

I've already seen this on a few instances where a I'm a solo warden (no hunting guards) managing ~8-10 reds due to nobody else wanting join blue (primarily to avoid being warden).

 

[Dova]

And don't forget logistics: most people do not want to play on guard or do not have a mic. We need guards to have fun or they will switch to red, and then BLU will be weaker as a result, and then the remaining BLUs will have less fun against rebellers, etc. It's a negative feedback loop until BLU is empty and the server dies. I have seen this happen way too much, I'm not talking out of my ass here!

+1
Damage boost takes the edge off of going blu slightly, especially for less experienced players.

I’ll also stand by my initial point that rebelling should **not** be easy. If it is too easy then it becomes boring for all involved and also increases the instances where most, if not all, of the blu team leaves or switches team due to frustration when they keep dying to rebellers.
At the end of the day, you cannot have a game of jailbreak if nobody wants to go blu.

 

[Firebird]

+1
Damage boost takes the edge off of going blu slightly, especially for less experienced players.

I’ll also stand by my initial point that rebelling should **not** be easy. If it is too easy then it becomes boring for all involved and also increases the instances where most, if not all, of the blu team leaves or switches team due to frustration when they keep dying to rebellers.
At the end of the day, you cannot have a game of jailbreak if nobody wants to go blu.

It has never been "easy" to rebel, also i see the problem you have in your servers is that nobody wants to go blue. Why is that. Even with the 1,5x there is almost nobody that "wants" to go blue. I remember the days where half the lobby wanted to go blue and go autobalanced because there was simply too many blues. Thats the only negative thing i have seen on this server. You have plenty of no-mics on blue that just makes it boring.

But that is a topic for a whole new discussion that i wont go into here. The problem is that i dont think you have read the entire post to understand what point we are trying to point across.

 

[kringu]

It has never been "easy" to rebel, also i see the problem you have in your servers is that nobody wants to go blue. Why is that. Even with the 1,5x there is almost nobody that "wants" to go blue. I remember the days where half the lobby wanted to go blue and go autobalanced because there was simply too many blues. Thats the only negative thing i have seen on this server. You have plenty of no-mics on blue that just makes it boring.

But that is a topic for a whole new discussion that i wont go into here. The problem is that i dont think you have read the entire post to understand what point we are trying to point across.

We don't have many blue players because of how bhop naturally gives more advantages to reds than blues, it's as simple as that. Flux has a reputation for being a server where people can more easily rebel than on other JB servers.

 

[Firebird]

We are not talking about removing bhopping, we are just talking about removing the 1,5x or we could even settle for only warden having 1,5x (since 1 blue vs 8 reds were brought up). This seems fair and balanced. Right now the unbalance is unbearable. I have seen new people join and leave when they figure out that all the blues has a **HUGE** advantage over the reds. I have seen your comments about reds can just become faster while taking damage, but then again think about what edi wrote. You can block off key points or just beware and always have the thought in the back of your head that someone is going to rebel.

 

[kringu]

I just don't see how 1.5x damage boost is worse than full-on crits, which is what every other server uses. This server is more lenient to rebellers than others just because of that fact alone. And on top of that Reds have bhop.

 

[K̶̐͋̔̽a̴̢̗̖̬̿i̵̻͔̝̍ 壊]

there was some who were so good they just go sniper, with the camper secondary, and just get the hell out, and blew everyone’s head, clean off

Bucket basically does this on a daily basis and the past few days I started doing this too and can attest to its effectiveness. The consistent counter to this stat alone IMO is guards who can hitscan with sniper consistently or decent hunting scouts w/ damage buff. Remove the buff and I'd argue the only people left to counter are headshotting snipers and exceptional hunting scouts.

 

[Firebird]

Bucket basically does this on a daily basis and the past few days I started doing this too and can attest to its effectiveness. The consist counter to this stat alone IMO is guards who can hitscan with sniper consistently or decent hunting scouts w/ damage buff. Remove the buff and I'd argue the only people left to counter are headshotting snipers and exceptional hunting scouts.

If the sniper is on the other side of the map then with or without the 1,5x there is not alot you can do about it. The easiest way is to one-shot the sniper with a bodyshot from another sniper, but for the red sniper he cant one-shot bodyshot. That is simply just not fair.

 

[Firebird]

What i really just want to put across here since i can see there is alot of misunderstanding.

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT REMOVING B-HOPPING, ONLY 1,5X DAMAGE MULTIPLIER.

They are not codependent.

 

[K̶̐͋̔̽a̴̢̗̖̬̿i̵̻͔̝̍ 壊]

I'm talking about when a red sniper bum rush the fuck out in the process to obtain ammo while guards hunt.

 

[Firebird]

I understand the points you have given, i do. But i still do not see the problem since the blues have the exact same ability to chase. And lets say that you are a sniper bodyshotting a red rebeller. Chances are he/she is going to get one-shot or survive with limited hp (with or without healing items). You can chase them and finish them of from a distance.